Wot? No Rogues?

Discuss the ENnie nominated module by Patrick Lawinger
Eryx
Lich
Joined: 07 Jan 2002, 06:08

28 Sep 2002, 15:49 #1

I'm getting ready to run HotRM for my group in a couple weeks, but one small problem have I found (Yoda speak again...), the place is fairly well trapped but the group doesn't have a Rogue or anyone with high rogue-ish skills. I don't want to kill them off with countless traps but I don't want things to be too easy... any advice on what to do?
Thanx.
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Keeper of the Dead, and scholar of the macabre.
DMing Pathfinder these days.
I'm not asking for characters to be lawful stupid. I want characters who care, who want to be heroes, aren't scared of doing the right thing, and players who try to help make the campaign more heroic.
Remember, the DM is just as important as the players. Players don't always come first.
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Eryx
Lich
Joined: 07 Jan 2002, 06:08

28 Sep 2002, 16:01 #2

I've posted this before, but heres the party composition.
Elf, CG, Ranger 7th.
Elf, NG, Druid 7th.
Elf, NG, Wizard/Wizard of High Sorcery 3/4.
Human, LG, Fighter/Paladin 4/4.
Human, TN, Fighter 8th.
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Keeper of the Dead, and scholar of the macabre.
DMing Pathfinder these days.
I'm not asking for characters to be lawful stupid. I want characters who care, who want to be heroes, aren't scared of doing the right thing, and players who try to help make the campaign more heroic.
Remember, the DM is just as important as the players. Players don't always come first.
Reply

Patrick Lawinger
Vampire
Joined: 06 Jan 2002, 05:37

28 Sep 2002, 17:55 #3

Eryx,
I'll try to post a cogent reply, but my 3-year-old is running around like a madman begging to go outside.
After the first post, I was thinking, "that's okay the cleric can, oh, @#%$, they don't have a cleric ..."
***Spoilers Below***


First, they don't have a cleric. This is just bad news, much worse news than not having a rogue. There ARE ways around many of the traps with a clever party and the right spells/magic items. I would strongly advise the druid pick up some scrolls of healing spells and that the party invest in some healing potions.
Without a rogue, hmmm, the party is going to need some magic items. I would suggest a wand of Knock spells. You will notice that some doors and chests in the last portion of the module have Spell Resistance. This was done to deliberately make the Wizard uses his "knock" spell to open the door more "expensive" in terms of magic, time and effort. As DM you can rule that out if you want. Keep in mind that opening doors with a knock spell does not bypass any traps, but if the PCs are at a safe distance they might be able to avoid damage.
With my son running around making noise I can't remember the druid's spells and shapeshift abilities at this level so can't really assess what he can do to overcome things.
I have to say that ALL of the test parties had a cleric (single class or cleric PrC). One party did have a multi-class rogue, they used spells to get around some traps (real and imagined as I understand). I can check with the DM of that test group for different ways they got around the traps.
Your party should be buff enough to handle the early part of the adventure with healing potions etc. Obviously, if they make huge mistakes they are dead, but a rogue or cleric won't help them there. The temple portion of the adventure is tough, they will need some serious scrolls/wands/potions to get through it. If needed, provide them at the end of the first portion of the adventure. Londar did adventure solo after all, so he might have stoneshape, passwall etc. scrolls and knock wands in his vault.
The trap on the vault is a killer, if they don't realize its similarities to the door leading to Londar's corpse a TPK is very likely at that point. 8-9th level fighter-types can soak up huge amounts of damage so your front line might be able to soak some trap damage up without worrying about the rogue, but stopping to heal all of the time is going to be a pain.
I'll think about it some more, but my suggestion right now is to let them figure ways around the traps in Londar's mansion etc. and then give them or make them purchase or make scrolls and wands for the last part of the module. I hope your party knows when to run away...
Patrick
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Eryx
Lich
Joined: 07 Jan 2002, 06:08

28 Sep 2002, 19:13 #4

No they don't have a cleric, but that was originaly due to the setting (DragonLance) but they now have the option of multi-classing or in the event of a character death taking a full Cleric. Healing is dealt with both by the Druid and the Paladin, and the group has invested heavily in (non-magic) healing salves.
I think I will include a wand of Knock per your suggestion and hope that they are smart enough to get through without much trouble (they are fairly good when the chips are down).
Thanx for the suggestions. Image -----------------------
Keeper of the Dead, and scholar of the macabre.
DMing Pathfinder these days.
I'm not asking for characters to be lawful stupid. I want characters who care, who want to be heroes, aren't scared of doing the right thing, and players who try to help make the campaign more heroic.
Remember, the DM is just as important as the players. Players don't always come first.
Reply

Patrick Lawinger
Vampire
Joined: 06 Jan 2002, 05:37

28 Sep 2002, 19:57 #5

I looked up some of the Druid spells, it appears they should have plenty of ways around some of the doors and traps if they are creative. Rusting grasp, stone shape, and other spells can be used to bypass things.
The knock wand is probably the way to go though, they will still trigger traps, but some of the nastiest ones should be okay at a distance.
DragonLance is an interesting setting, some people feel "railroaded" by the books etc. but I had a DM that simply used the setting, our characters weren't concerned with the "war" (which was over for us).
Good luck and have fun, let me know if you have any other questions.
Patrick
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Eryx
Lich
Joined: 07 Jan 2002, 06:08

28 Sep 2002, 20:08 #6

Quote:

DragonLance is an interesting setting, some people feel "railroaded" by the books etc. but I had a DM that simply used the setting, our characters weren't concerned with the "war" (which was over for us).
Our game is set during the War of the Lance, but it is in the background, as the game concentrates on the characters and their adventures.
I think I will give the players some strong advice before they start and give them a heads up that way.
Thanx for your advice. Image -----------------------
Keeper of the Dead, and scholar of the macabre.
DMing Pathfinder these days.
I'm not asking for characters to be lawful stupid. I want characters who care, who want to be heroes, aren't scared of doing the right thing, and players who try to help make the campaign more heroic.
Remember, the DM is just as important as the players. Players don't always come first.
Reply

Eryx
Lich
Joined: 07 Jan 2002, 06:08

01 Oct 2002, 00:02 #7

SPOILERS: Don't read if you are playing or gonna be playing HoRM!
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Ok, sadly the player of the Wizard wasn't able to play tonight (Sister's Birthday), but we started anyway since the house portion of the adventure shouldn't be too much trouble.
The party was brought to Hampton Hill (a village they have visted before) by a representitive of the Baron who acting as a family friend of the neice.
The party wasn't too happy about the quest (1. The idea of entering a wizards stronghold troubled them, and 2. They had to negotiate for better pay. Image ) but in the end they agreed so long as the Baron paid up front so they could purchase some healing potions.
The campaign is currently set in winter, so they had a little searching for clues amidst the snow where the carriage was found, and found nothing after all.
They entered the house via the windows into the main hall (The body gave it away that the door was trapped), and made enough noise that the rogues in the next room easily overheard them. The fight with them went well, even though the Paladin spent the fight webbed into a corner of the hallway! Image
They then began to search the house, easily dispatching the golems although the fighter became entranced in Londar's office and the party had to snap him out of it during the fight!
Thats pretty much where we ended it, with the characters hold up for the night in his office. They found the movable bookcase easily and are now debating whether to head up or down.
So far its a damn fun adventure. Image -----------------------
Keeper of the Dead, and scholar of the macabre.
DMing Pathfinder these days.
I'm not asking for characters to be lawful stupid. I want characters who care, who want to be heroes, aren't scared of doing the right thing, and players who try to help make the campaign more heroic.
Remember, the DM is just as important as the players. Players don't always come first.
Reply

Patrick Lawinger
Vampire
Joined: 06 Jan 2002, 05:37

01 Oct 2002, 14:35 #8

I am glad you are enjoying it. Did they touch the statue in the dining room?
Your party sounds pretty organized and cautious, I am guessing they should do well in the mansion portion of the adventure.
The body at the door is meant as a give-away. The trap is pretty nasty otherwise.
Patrick
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Eryx
Lich
Joined: 07 Jan 2002, 06:08

01 Oct 2002, 18:10 #9

No, they left the statue well alone. They figured that if the thieves didn't take it that there was something wrong with it, although they kept an eye on it in case it animated as well.
I think the mansion portion they will breeze. The caves underneath might give them some trouble me thinks, and I know the player of the human fighter is going swear come the final chapter in the temple. He hates NecGames adventures because he can't critical undead! Image
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Keeper of the Dead, and scholar of the macabre.
DMing Pathfinder these days.
I'm not asking for characters to be lawful stupid. I want characters who care, who want to be heroes, aren't scared of doing the right thing, and players who try to help make the campaign more heroic.
Remember, the DM is just as important as the players. Players don't always come first.
Reply

Patrick Lawinger
Vampire
Joined: 06 Jan 2002, 05:37

02 Oct 2002, 13:34 #10

Quote:

No, they left the statue well alone. They figured that if the thieves didn't take it that there was something wrong with it, although they kept an eye on it in case it animated as well.
I think the mansion portion they will breeze. The caves underneath might give them some trouble me thinks, and I know the player of the human fighter is going swear come the final chapter in the temple. He hates NecGames adventures because he can't critical undead!
Hehe, your party IS cautious. The caves beneath should be okay, just have to remember that certain doors "reset" after a few minutes. If they keep that in mind they won't run into any forcefields and panic.
Bah, just remind the human fighter that undead are okay, he might not be able to crit them, but they can crit him! That's fair isn't it?
Patrick
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