Any word on Tegel?

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usdmw	Any word on Tegel?	Lead	[-]
Posts: 76 (09/08/08 06:33:53) Shadow Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None I was wondering if there had been any decision (or even thoughtful deliberation) about the fate of Tegel Manor. As it was completed (or nearly so) for 3.5 it would be a shame for it not to be published at all. I know that there were GSL issues that made a 4.0 edition problematic, but surely the great Tegel Manor should see the light in some form. David W
Snoring Rock		#1	[-]
Posts: 688 (09/08/08 06:59:35) Eternally Unspanked Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Sore subject. Which reminds me; where is that "revised" GSL? WotC sure did screw the pooch on this huh? No news since the announcement of an announcement of another "sit on your hands and wait" announcement of a revised GSL. Tegel Manor will not see the light of day until the GSL is worded like the OGL or another publisher picks it up and does it. I dont know if that is possible. Orcus aint budging until WotC does something. It would be cool if we could get it in 3.5 or Pathfinder. Then if ever the "revised" GSL were to be released (good luck) it could be published in 4e. How 'bout it all you 4e fan-boys? Great 3pp partnership WotC has garnered eh? It has effectively shut down our favorite publisher and stopped the best-ever adventure from being released. Grrrrrrrr.
Dark Mistress		#2	[-]
Posts: 1392 (09/08/08 08:29:54) Dominatrix Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tell us how you really feel Snore. I imagine Tegel will see the light of day some day, just no time soon. At this point i think at best your looking at gencon next year baring a major change in the GSL then at soonest likely early 09. Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Benjamin Franklin For MSG - I am sure you can teach a monkey to scratch his butt, just tell him to watch you. After a couple of hours he should be a master at it. Last Edited By: Dark Mistress 09/08/08 11:24:08. Edited 1 times.
DaveMage		#3	[-]
Posts: 1855 (09/08/08 08:46:14) Wilderlands Pathfinder Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	We wait for the GSL.... ...which is pretty much how it's been here for the last 13 months, so why stop now? Anticipation is half the fun, right?
Snoring Rock		#4	[-]
Posts: 690 (09/08/08 09:47:00) Eternally Unspanked Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Dark Mistress wrote: Tell us how you really feel Snore. I imagine Tegel will see the light of day some day, just no time soon. At this point i think at best your looking at gencon next year barely a major change in the GSL then at soonest likely early 09. This makes me so mad I could spit. Fact, it makes me feel like spanking a certan succubus.
Dark Mistress		#5	[-]
Posts: 1395 (09/08/08 11:24:41) Dominatrix Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Snoring Rock wrote: Fact, it makes me feel like spanking a certan succubus. Promises promises. Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Benjamin Franklin For MSG - I am sure you can teach a monkey to scratch his butt, just tell him to watch you. After a couple of hours he should be a master at it.
Orcus		#6	[-]
Posts: 4970 (09/08/08 11:30:18) Demon Lord Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Without going into too much detail, right now Necro can't adopt the GSL as is. That means no Tegel from us. I've had this conversation with Bob Jr. Though granted the right to publish it, its not my goal to jeopardize JG to make me a few bucks. As I see it, if we publish Tegel under the current GSL that endangers JG's continued ability to publish non-GSL based products. I am never going to do that to JG. I am waiting to see what this "revised" GSL is going to look like. Now, I think I might be able to guess a few of the tweaks. But I still have concerns that Tegel may not be able to be done as a legal matter through Necro. Its all about licensing at this point. And I, too, am waiting to see this new GSL.
Snoring Rock		#7	[-]
Posts: 691 (09/08/08 11:38:02) Eternally Unspanked Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	You have infinetely more reliable sources and get the news much sooner than I do, but it is as I have thought since the very first little "stall" and "wait" and "coming soon" news on the GSL. I certainly do not thing this is the work of the devil, we can leave that to Dark Mistress (spank me please), but I dont thing the GSL will get very Tegel friendly any time soon. Orcus, I am dissapointed that this never worked out. I (I speak for many here) really thought that this might get published in 3.5 since 4e is not likely. In your oppinion, what are the chances, after Pathfinder has proven itself asa viable option, that Tegel could make the press in cooperation with Paizo?
Dark Mistress		#8	[-]
Posts: 1398 (09/08/08 12:06:23) Dominatrix Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Snoring Rock wrote: I certainly do not thing this is the work of the devil, we can leave that to Dark Mistress ? I always thought Elizabeth Hurley was outstanding as the Devil in the remake of Bedazzled with Brendon Fraser. Though not sure I could handle the paperwork involved to being the devil, cause you know their would be paperwork. It's hell. Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Benjamin Franklin For MSG - I am sure you can teach a monkey to scratch his butt, just tell him to watch you. After a couple of hours he should be a master at it. Last Edited By: Dark Mistress 09/08/08 12:16:30. Edited 1 times.
Snoring Rock		#9	[-]
Posts: 693 (09/08/08 12:47:05) Eternally Unspanked Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	DM you certainly are on your game today. Here is a dose of real hell.....GSL....ooooo....
DaveMage		#10	[-]
Posts: 1857 (09/08/08 14:45:46) Wilderlands Pathfinder Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Thanks! I.... Oh, you mean...HER.
Dark Mistress		#11	[-]
Posts: 1401 (09/08/08 15:08:03) Dominatrix Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	DaveMage wrote: Thanks! I.... Oh, you mean...HER. I am sure if you asked nice enough DaveMage, Snore would spank you. Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Benjamin Franklin For MSG - I am sure you can teach a monkey to scratch his butt, just tell him to watch you. After a couple of hours he should be a master at it.
Snoring Rock		#12	[-]
Posts: 695 (09/08/08 18:52:22) Eternally Unspanked Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Dark Mistress wrote: DaveMage wrote: Thanks! I.... Oh, you mean...HER. I am sure if you asked nice enough DaveMage, Snore would spank you. See, Sir Dave Mage, she is trully a succubus of the worst kind. She is just evil. In any case, Mr. DM, you are always on your game. Your comments are always tasteful and insightful. As for Ms. DM, well heck, look where this thread has gone. Have you noticed that I cant really post much without our favorite succubus right here to lead the thread off to a spanking of some kind? She has a crush on me. I dont care where she stands, or waht she claims, she has a crush and I see right through it. If Orcus finds out why he is liable to ....well, get mad.
Deepfire		#13	[-]
Posts: 72 (09/09/08 01:41:27) Mad Collector Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	hmm - since the first "we wait for 4.0" I bought about 20 (?) Paizo Products, maybe more - maybe waiting isn't always the best alternative for an adventure ... currently playing ... D20 Modern - Urban Arcana cthulhu: orient express (german edition) GURPS Traveller - Annic Nova/Loggerheads preparing: D&D 3.5 Pathfinder
Snoring Rock		#14	[-]
Posts: 696 (09/09/08 03:09:20) Eternally Unspanked Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Deepfire wrote: hmm - since the first "we wait for 4.0" I bought about 20 (?) Paizo Products, maybe more - maybe waiting isn't always the best alternative for an adventure ... Good thinking Sir Deep. The case is the same for me. There are however, those D&D fans who do not purchase anything unless it has WotC as the publisher and producer. There is also the thought that if anything is 3.5, and since 4e does not allow 3.5 to exist (makes the attempt), there are quite a few people who will not purchase. What percentage of gamers that is, is a guess at best. Amazon is not reporting. What is known, is that Pathfinder did very well at GenCon and Paizo, of all the 3.5 3pp's, is still printing, writing and producing product, and there is a market for it. Good for us! From my tiny corner of the world, it was 3.x that got me back in the game. I walked away from TSR and 2e. I came back and so did a lot of other gamers who had been away a while, working, getting married, education, other hobbies, kids, soccer, etc. We are older, wiser and dont quite see the need for marketing gimmicks to sell more core rules. Give us adventures, we have rules. Necro served this particular mind set very well by bringing back Judges Guild favorites, revised by like-minded gamers. Then the announcement of 4e.....stop the presses. This was frustrating, so close to publication, and then Necro stops everything to wait on 4e. We know the rest with WotC and the "soming soon" GSL and the "soon to come again" GSL. You are right. Why wait? I 'm not. I converted everything in Tegel over to Pathfinder Beta and my group is preparing to visit very soon. Its a shame; I would have thrown $60 or more on the table for Tegel Manor 3.5. Now, I dont need it, I did the work myself. And like you, I have purchased a lot of Paizo products and have subscriptions with them. For a flat 3.5 market, they sure are raking it in. It would be cool if they picked up Tegel and ran with it. I would like to compare it my own work. Last Edited By: Snoring Rock 09/09/08 03:21:29. Edited 1 times.
Dark Mistress		#15	[-]
Posts: 1402 (09/09/08 06:32:12) Dominatrix Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Now aren't you glad I pointed out Paizo to you Snore? As for the rest, well I imagine a big part of that is. Paizo does higher sales than Necro, they have a much higher production rate and not all their money comes from their own products they make some of it off their store. They was in a much better position to take a chance and with their subscription based model they had a more steady income. Paizo is the only company that I am aware of(might be more but if so i never heard about it) who's sales was going up not down before the 4e annoucement and especially afterwards. Since this is a hobby for Necro to make stuff I can understand their reasoning for waiting. Don't agree completely, as I think they would be better off to publish a few products with paizo in 3.5 especially those that are unlikely with out major changes to the GSL to go 4e anyways. Such as Tegel, but they want to support the current edition of DnD regardless what it is, which I get. I just hope they don't want to long till all that is left is their hardcore fans. Edit: hopefully that makes sense I just woke up. Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Benjamin Franklin For MSG - I am sure you can teach a monkey to scratch his butt, just tell him to watch you. After a couple of hours he should be a master at it.
gideon thorne		#16	[-]
Posts: 238 (09/09/08 06:57:02) Ghoul Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Dark Mistress wrote: They was in a much better position to take a chance and with their subscription based model they had a more steady income. Paizo is the only company that I am aware of(might be more but if so i never heard about it) who's sales was going up not down before the 4e annoucement and especially afterwards. Thats TLG's story and all. 4e's been good for the company. The 4e blow back is doing nothing but increase the companies sales. Peter B Castles & Crusades/ Castle Zagyg/Wilderlands of High Adventure Artist
Snoring Rock		#17	[-]
Posts: 697 (09/09/08 07:34:04) Eternally Unspanked Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Dark Mistress, you have an aggressive, results-driven operations manager here who takes every opportunity to find ways to open markets or grasp those that have not been fully explored for my product. That said; I see a niche here to be filled. As you alluded too, and as I continue to state; Tegel Manor is NOT the kind of adventure that will be highly popular among the younger (generally) more WoW-type demographic who finds 4e so exciting. It will be limited to the older-type-40-something gamers already found here on the Necro boards. That market is decidedly 3.5/Pathfinder or 4e (willing to covert). That said, I think; no, believe with all my heart and gut; that Tegel Manor will sell more in that format. So, seeing as how the GSL most likely will not allow dual-statting and is a hostile environemt for JG material development, why fight it? Publish Tegel Manor for its fans, and then publish new, slicker, improved, WoW-type Teifling stuff for the 4e market. And yes, necro is supporting 4e....or maybe it isnt. Can you list all of the 4e material currently on the rack from Necro. Thats my point. What Orcus has going for him is the fact that he does not NEED this to survive. That puts him in a good position. I sense eventually however that interest will wain here as the length of time drags on without any kind of product. GSL, GSL, GSL....come everyone, chant with me.... So.....as you said, and as has been proven to be the case, Paizo is working and selling, and moving foward, and picking up the pace. Since there is an agreement between Paizo and Necro on Tegel Manor.....heck, let's go forward with it. The market is there.
DaveMage		#18	[-]
Posts: 1858 (09/09/08 10:14:04) Wilderlands Pathfinder Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	gideon thorne wrote: Thats TLG's story and all. 4e's been good for the company. The 4e blow back is doing nothing but increase the companies sales. I wonder if Green Ronin's True 20 experienced the same thing...
Ifuritasfan		#19	[-]
Posts: 235 (09/09/08 10:14:27) Ghast Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Just a question. We know the GSL has issues with simultaneous publication of products in 4.0 and 3.5 But couldn't it be published as a 3.5 product, and then offer up a 4.0 conversion/repopulation document? That way the original product is released under the 3.5 license, and the 4.0 isn't an actual 4.0 product, but a 3.5 add on? We know that WotC has pretty much figured out that the GSL as written is crap, and that they're going to rewrite it, but in the mean time wouldn't this be a way around it?
Snoring Rock		#20	[-]
Posts: 699 (09/09/08 11:55:01) Eternally Unspanked Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Ifuritasfan wrote: Just a question. We know the GSL has issues with simultaneous publication of products in 4.0 and 3.5 But couldn't it be published as a 3.5 product, and then offer up a 4.0 conversion/repopulation document? That way the original product is released under the 3.5 license, and the 4.0 isn't an actual 4.0 product, but a 3.5 add on? We know that WotC has pretty much figured out that the GSL as written is crap, and that they're going to rewrite it, but in the mean time wouldn't this be a way around it? Well see, thats the fly in the ointment. As written, the GSL allows conversion, but only if you cease the sale of older version material upon the beginning of sales of the 4e (within 6 months). The real intent of the GSL was to allow 3pp's but to disallow publication of 3.5 material. They cannot revoke the OGL. So, they built this "squash" of 3.5 into the useage license of 4e. What they did not expect was for the larger, higher quality publishers to balk and either give up D&D, go in their own direction, or even publish 4e in sneaky ways. I think they fully expected everyone to follow suit. They are rethinking it, but I dont expect too many changes. If they were just going to make a quick fix, it would not take weeks or months. They came on line and announced an up-coming announcement and alignment change. I dont think the 4e/no 3.5 connection will be severed. I would like to be wrong, but they have a purpose here and that is to make at much sales as possible. Opening it up so that 3.5 can be published with it, well makes their old system, threir biggest competitor. Like it or not the 3pp's out-wrote WotC. 3pp's spalts were better too, although there were not enough of them. If more 3pp's started following Paizo, not maing teir own games, but publishing 3.5 for Pathfinder, WotC may more readily change the GSL. I think they are killing time again until October, which is when the publishers willing to play are supposed to start rolling out the goods.

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