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DaveMage	GSL is live!	Lead	[-]
Posts: 1672 (06/17/08 15:54:03) Wilderlands Pathfinder Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/welcome
DaveMage		#1	[-]
Posts: 1673 (06/17/08 16:21:40) Wilderlands Pathfinder Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Some interesting things I note: 1) Wizards can deny anyone use of the license at the start. 2) A 3PP cannot alter any definition of any proprietary name or term (does this mean NG has to use WotC's definition of devils?) 3) Section 6.1 is troubling for Necromancer Games .pdf backstock. If there's a Tome of Horrors 4E, there will be no continued sales of the ToH 3.5 .pdf. There also cannot be a City of Brass 4E unless City of Brass 3.5 ceases to exist for sale. Looks like Necromancer needs to create a new "product line" in order to continue to sell OGL backstock, and this backstock can never be a 4E product. It also says 6.1 stays in effect BEYOND license termination, which means you can't later convert a 4E product to OGL if you change your mind. Scary. 4) Lots of provisions survive the termination of the license. Eek! 5) It seems like if the SRD is revised and you happen to have a defined term in your own publication then you may be in breach of the license if WotC's definition and yours differs. Interesting.
DaveMage		#2	[-]
Posts: 1674 (06/17/08 16:24:22) Wilderlands Pathfinder Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	And, if the "Judges Guild" products are considered a "product line" does that mean that if Necromancer Publishes Tegal that they have to eliminate all Judges Guild .pdf backstock?
Stonefist		#3	[-]
Posts: 281 (06/17/08 17:01:16) 2E Master Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	The definiton of a product line is never fully described in the license. Since Judges Guild is a third party, JG Intellectual property may be governed by the Third Party IP clause. That may mean that while NG may have a JG product line, Goodman Games may also have a JG product line. But, if I'm reading this correctly, NG could go 4e with their JG product line, but Goodman could stay 3e with it's JG product line. I do suspect that the JG products published by NG will count as a product line which means that if NG wants to put out Tegel as 4e they will need to do a 4e conversion of Wilderlands and CSIO et. al. in order to sell them any more as PDFs. (hard copy they could keep selling). Ed: minor typo Last Edited By: Stonefist 06/17/08 17:11:17. Edited 1 times.
Stonefist		#4	[-]
Posts: 282 (06/17/08 17:10:35) 2E Master Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	As for the tems of the contract. They are certainly trying to push everyone onto this one. Product line is not clearly defined but it could be that for many companies their whole offering is their product line. In that case, they would need to migrate everything to 4e. What is interesting to note is that the GSL can be terminated at any time. It can also be updated at any time. So, if you sign on, you are agreeing to abide by a license that may change without warning. So, they could get any number of 3PP to go to 4e and then revoke the license. The 3pp would be pretty stuck since the could not go back to 3e any more. Also, if there is plenty of CYA for Wizards in this license. You also agree not to hurt their repuation in any way. And if you are in breach of the contract they could sue you and make you pay their laywer fees. Also, you sign that you agree that you will be tried in Washington for anything and you waive the right to a jury trial. No jury. Hmm. Ok, I think I would pass on this agreement, myself. But everyone must make the choices that are right for them. StoneFist
see		#5	[-]
Posts: 52 (06/17/08 17:20:17) Skeleton Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I'm looking for the PHB II stuff that was supposedly being added to the SRD as justification for missing last week. Doesn't seem to be there.
JeffB		#6	[-]
Posts: 133 (06/17/08 17:21:22) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Erik Mona is prolly feeling pretty good about his decision right about now. This GSL seems really ....errr..over the top.... restriction-wise. I'm curious how plans are going to change for the Necro updated "PHB". Among other things, it looks like you cannot change an existing class- only provide more powers, etc. No replacements. which sucks, co I'd love to see somewhat toned down re-writes of the core classes to add a little more "grit" and 1E feel. seems though they could create entirely new ones- Warrior, Mage, Thief, etc ..assuming I'm understanding this correctly.
DaveMage		#7	[-]
Posts: 1676 (06/17/08 17:24:23) Wilderlands Pathfinder Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	JeffB wrote: Erik Mona is prolly feeling pretty good about his decision right about now. . Erik's quote on the Paizo boards reads: "I've been expecting this sort of thing for months, obviously. I'm feeling very pleased with our decision to stick with the OGL today..."
JeffB		#8	[-]
Posts: 134 (06/17/08 17:28:21) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	DaveMage wrote: JeffB wrote: Erik Mona is prolly feeling pretty good about his decision right about now. . Erik's quote on the Paizo boards reads: "I've been expecting this sort of thing for months, obviously. I'm feeling very pleased with our decision to stick with the OGL today..." Heh. Good for him. He's always been class act. I won't be going Pathfinder myself ( still too fiddly complex for my taste) , but I sure hope he sells the heck out of that game I think everyone should realize now just how awesome Ryan Dancey was bringing us the OGL
DaveMage		#9	[-]
Posts: 1677 (06/17/08 17:30:18) Wilderlands Pathfinder Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	JeffB wrote: I think everyone should realize now just how awesome Ryan Dancey was bringing us the OGL AMEN!
Keeper of the Dark Realms		#10	[-]
Posts: 4352 (06/17/08 17:48:20) Master of Rules and Sinister Beasts Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Anyone notice the section on monsters in the MM SRD? Several are completely missing (beholder, Tarrasque, etc)...but also, it appears in addys you cannot reprint a monster's stat block (unless Im misreading it). If I wrote something and wanted to put in an Owlbear...I couldnt print a stat block for it unless I alter it from the MM. Or I can say "2 owlbears (see the Monster Manual)." Also- from first glance, looks like NONE of the demons or devils are allowed to be used. Scott =============== Necromancer Games www.necromancergames.com
Sangrolu		#11	[-]
Posts: 1876 (06/17/08 17:56:13) Necromancer Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	JeffB wrote: I think everyone should realize now just how awesome Ryan Dancey was bringing us the OGL Indeed. I said just about that same thing on another board. Seriously, except for the OGL poison pill crap, this is about what you should expect from an IP license. But then, speaking as someone online during the TSR Rob Repp fansite fracas, that's probably bad enough. --- (This space for rent) Last Edited By: Sangrolu 06/17/08 18:01:16. Edited 1 times.
Keeper of the Dark Realms		#12	[-]
Posts: 4353 (06/17/08 18:08:18) Master of Rules and Sinister Beasts Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Anyone see this part of the GSL??? 18. Independent Development. Nothing in this License will impair Wizards' right to acquire, license, develop, have others develop for it, market and/or distribute materials or products that contain concepts, storylines, or other content similar to, or otherwise compete with, Licensed Products. Scott =============== Necromancer Games www.necromancergames.com
Frost		#13	[-]
Posts: 2864 (06/17/08 18:16:08) Lich Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	From Section 23.55 Wizards' has the right of prima nocturna. ;-) Frost Offical Killer DM #0076 Praise not the day until evening has come; a women until she is burnt; a sword until it is tried; a maiden until she is married; ice until it has been crossed; beer until it has been drunk. - Viking proverb Dungeon Gear - Gamer Apparel The Dungeoneering Dad - A father on gaming and life Flickr Photos from Frost
DaveMage		#14	[-]
Posts: 1678 (06/17/08 18:16:16) Wilderlands Pathfinder Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hope you don't have any good ideas, Scott.
Keeper of the Dark Realms		#15	[-]
Posts: 4354 (06/17/08 18:24:21) Master of Rules and Sinister Beasts Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	DaveMage wrote: Hope you don't have any good ideas, Scott. Nope. None. Just ask the wifey. Scott =============== Necromancer Games www.necromancergames.com
DaveMage		#16	[-]
Posts: 1679 (06/17/08 18:26:29) Wilderlands Pathfinder Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I'm really curious to see Clark's reaction....
MacPhail		#17	[-]
Posts: 2079 (06/17/08 18:28:14) Necromantic Writer Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Keeper of the Dark Realms wrote: Anyone notice the section on monsters in the MM SRD? Several are completely missing (beholder, Tarrasque, etc)...but also, it appears in addys you cannot reprint a monster's stat block (unless Im misreading it). If I wrote something and wanted to put in an Owlbear...I couldnt print a stat block for it unless I alter it from the MM. Or I can say "2 owlbears (see the Monster Manual)." Also- from first glance, looks like NONE of the demons or devils are allowed to be used. That's how I read it as well, which is lame. I like having full stats in the products themselves, as opposed to references. I wonder how much you have to change before it counts as a new monster... they're pretty clear on us not being allowed to 'redefine' a reference. As for the Tarrasque and others, I wonder if its the back to the whole mindflayer/illithid absurdity that Rich Baker handled so beautifully in OotS. MacPhail Last Edited By: MacPhail 06/17/08 18:43:23. Edited 1 times.
MacPhail		#18	[-]
Posts: 2080 (06/17/08 18:29:36) Necromantic Writer Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	DaveMage wrote: Hope you don't have any good ideas, Scott. Our new policy will be to aspire to such mediocrity that WotC will be loathe to poach our ideas. MacPhail
serleran		#19	[-]
Posts: 80 (06/17/08 18:45:05) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Nothing unexpected here. Maybe it's me, but I didn't see the SRD. Was it there?
Snoring Rock		#20	[-]
Posts: 515 (06/17/08 18:45:40) Eternally Unspanked Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hmmm...I was right about the delay. Nothing to do with prep, more to do with timing. 3pp's have only 3 months to crank out material that may be, at any time, at any whim, be yanked from the license and then possibly reprinted as a WotC production. While you answer to a court in another state, less all of your standard legal rights. Eric Mona, cheers to you! Seriously, Necro can publish Tegel Manor, have the license revoked and the following month WotC can publish Tegel Manor. Maybe not word for word, but pretty close. I will read this closer tomorrow, but as it is, as I understand it now, it is a huge risk, no a gigantic, no...collosal risk to sign this document and then send it to WotC. If Tegel happens 4e, we wont see it in any 3.5 PDF......ever. There are a lot of expensive implications here for a publisher with books on shelves. Question Clark....after a conteact is breeached, dismissed, ended, etc, can they really hold you from legally going back and publishing under thr OGL? It all of this enforceable? I am no attorney, but I handle about 90% of the legal affairs for my company. I have never seen such a one-sided; one winner, one loser contract in my life. This is adversarial.

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