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Artifacts throughout fiction

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Mouseferatu	Artifacts throughout fiction	Lead	[-]
Posts: 273 Feb 10 07 1:57 PM Wight Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Tags : None I know that some people are uncertain how to incorporate artifacts into their campaigns, seeing them only as mega-powerful magic items that will unbalance the party. I thought, rather than trying to address that issue myself, I'd just point people to stories that have done so. Each of the objects discussed below would qualify as an artifact--they may not all be insanely potent, but they are all unique items with a rich history and/or purpose in the setting. The One Ring (Lord of the Rings) The Glaive (Krull) The Dark Crystal (The Dark Crystal) The Ark of the Covenant (Raiders of the Lost Ark) The Orb of Aldur (The Belgariad) Blue Rose (The Elenium) Stormbringer (Moorcock's Elric series) Excalibur (the King Arthur legends) The Great Machine on Epsilon 3 (Babylon 5; I realize this is sci-fi, not fantasy, but as an ancient source of great but mysterious power, the Machine's purpose in the story is still very much that of an artifact) The Black Cauldron (The Black Cauldron) The Spear of Longinus (Constantine) There are plenty of others, but these, I think, make the point I wanted to make. Ari Marmell aka Mouseferatu --Rodent of the Dark www.mouseferatu.com www.lionsdenpress.com
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JoeGKushner	Re: Artifacts throughout fiction	#1	[-]
Posts: 7618 Feb 12 07 8:58 AM Demi Lich Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Strombringer, for all it's base power, isn't really an artifact per say. It's just a powerful sword that in a magic rich D&D campaign has a ton of disadvantages. For example, it's useless against constructs and undead. Excalibur falls into the same camp. Powerful, to me, does not equal artifact. Now if we went with that crazy armor Thomas gets in Magician that turns him basiclly into a god, then sure, that's an artifact.
Mouseferatu	Re: Artifacts throughout fiction	#2	[-]
Posts: 273 Feb 12 07 10:38 AM Wight Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	My whole point was that power isn't the issue. An item's purpose in the story, and the history behind it, is what makes an artifact. Excalibur is an artifact because of its history and its importance to the tale, not because of its power (which, other than the fact that the scabbard can prevent wounds, is largely undefined in most Arthurian myths). Edit to add: That doesn't mean, of course, that the Tome includes anything like a simple +1 sword, writes a background, and calls it an artifact. Most if not all artifacts should, indeed, have some manner of unique ability. But my points were simply that A) Each of the objects from fiction mentioned above are, or have abilities, unique to their own settings, regardless of how D&D might or might not model them, and B) The specific power level of an artifact is secondary to its background and the purpose it plays in a story/campaign setting. Ari Marmell aka Mouseferatu --Rodent of the Dark www.mouseferatu.com www.lionsdenpress.com
keevan	Re: Artifacts throughout fiction	#3	[-]
Posts: 1599 Feb 12 07 11:00 AM Necromancer Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I'm not sure artifact needs to translate into raw power. And why wouldn't things like the classical 7 wonders fit as artifacts in some sense? or even smaller things like the recent greek timepiece/computer thingy. or the statues on easter island? i can think of artifacts as more mundane, unique (or very very rare) items. the declaration of independence, the magna carta, the gutenberg bible. the crown jewels. a ring for superbowl X. an oscar or grammy. these could all be artifacts in that sense. they needn't be limited to superbig items of power and mythology...
JoeGKushner	Re: Artifacts throughout fiction	#4	[-]
Posts: 7618 Feb 12 07 11:22 AM Demi Lich Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	But traditionally, that's how they're thought of. We don't think of the hand and eye of vecna and think, "meh, eye of seeing" or something along those lines. One of the areas where having magic items so codified, as they are in 3rd ed, works against the very feel of fantasy and the magic becomes another subsitution for technology without actually, you know, making sense in that context.
Mouseferatu	Re: Artifacts throughout fiction	#5	[-]
Posts: 273 Feb 12 07 11:28 AM Wight Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Oh, absolutely. The codified nature of magic, while perhaps good for ease of gameplay, does indeed work against the feel of items like artifacts. As I said, don't worry that you're going to see "standard items redressed"; that's not the route we went. I was just suggesting that one cannot judge artifacts in fiction by the same yardstick one judges artifacts in D&D, and all the above examples can offer DMs good ideas as to how to incorporate artifacts into their campaigns. Ari Marmell aka Mouseferatu --Rodent of the Dark www.mouseferatu.com www.lionsdenpress.com
JoeGKushner	Re: Artifacts throughout fiction	#6	[-]
Posts: 7618 Feb 12 07 12:32 PM Demi Lich Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	heck, I want something like the Titan armor that the old Planewalker from Magic the Gathering wore and designed for his fellow Planeswalkers. Think something along the lines of the Machine of Luke-O. Obviously too late now, but Archmagics from Role Aids had some interesting bits in it too.
keevan	Re: Artifacts throughout fiction	#7	[-]
Posts: 1599 Feb 12 07 2:22 PM Necromancer Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	well, i guess what people traditionally think an artifact is comes from their expereince with the game. i've played in a low magic setting, with a lot of detail: a potion of healing might be cerulean with an effervescent bubbling and somewhat medicine smell (think nurse blue alkaselzer). magic is rare, unique, and interesting. artifacts, believe it or not, end up being MORE common in this setting (if less powerful). making a magic sword isn't something that you just walk into ye old weaponsmith and crank one out. you end up questing for the rare refined metal, you need the scales of a quilled dragon for its keen edge, etc. it may not be a world shattering "excalibur" but very intersitng in their own way. personally -- i really hate how "codified" and common magic is in most worlds.
Diabolus	Re: Artifacts throughout fiction	#8	[-]
Posts: 969 Feb 12 07 3:13 PM Vampire Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	*Quote:* Think something along the lines of the Machine of Luke-O. Groan. I think you're blending the Machine of Lum the Mad and the Mighty Servant of Leuk-o (which was essentially mecha battle armor - see the WotC site for a d20 modern web enhancement, where the Mighty Servant of Leuk-o is possessed by a Type III demon)
Patrick Lawinger	Re: Artifacts throughout fiction	#9	[-]
Posts: 1111 Feb 12 07 5:45 PM Necromantic Writer Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Guys, you need to see the book. I mean, some of the artifacts are very "mundane" yet can affect the world and/or even how the PCs view the world after they deal with them. I mean, one of the "artifacts" I created was a set of paint brushes ...
1MaGicbEAn	Re: Artifacts throughout fiction	#10	[-]
Posts: 1238 Feb 13 07 3:46 PM The Frumious Bandersnatch Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	"B) The specific power level of an artifact is secondary to its background and the purpose it plays in a story/campaign setting." I agree. Last week a player from an old campaign wanted to incorperate a favorite item from my game into his. When I gave him stats for the "artifact" he was surprized at how minor the item actually is in terms of stats when compared to how it appears to his character in the game. In terms of artifacts, it isn't the size it is how you use them.
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Patrick Lawinger	Re: Artifacts throughout fiction	#11	[-]
Posts: 1111 Feb 13 07 8:23 PM Necromantic Writer Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	*Quote:* In terms of artifacts, it isn't the size it is how you use them. hehe, or how they are used AGAINST you ... "Good heavens! The XXX guild, aren't you the ones that defeated the lich YYY and delved in to the great Rappan Athuck? Ladies and gentlemen, please, please, please, allow me to paint your portraits..." There are a wide variety of artifacts in this book, Ari, as developer, wanted a whole slew of very different items with wide ranging backgrounds. I look at this book as a really cool set of campaign hooks (notice I said CAMPAIGN and not adventure?). Not complete level 1-20 campaigns, but believe me, campaigns all the same.
JoeGKushner	Re: Artifacts throughout fiction	#12	[-]
Posts: 7618 Feb 14 07 7:26 AM Demi Lich Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	*Quote:* Groan. I think you're blending the Machine of Lum the Mad and the Mighty Servant of Leuk-o Can you tell it's been a while? I remember one old campaign I had where that fought a dragon mecha style beast from the Archmage book I was talking about. In Sword of Truth, that are artifacts all over the place. The old towers that seperate the Old World from the new, The Sword of Truth itself, the books that the Sisters of Light use, the whole spell that kept people young, etc...
Death Tribble	Re: Artifacts throughout fiction	#13	[-]
Posts: 9003 Feb 15 07 6:09 AM Terror from the Abyss Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Of course Excalibur is an artifact. The sword had to be sent away in a particular way thrown into the lake. And Stormbringer is an artifact. Look at exactly what that THING was. I think you're pretty tough don't I
JoeGKushner	Re: Artifacts throughout fiction	#14	[-]
Posts: 7618 Feb 15 07 8:15 AM Demi Lich Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Roland and his sword. Heck, I remember the 1st ed stats had it at something like +7 and destroyed armor. Wheel of Time and it's old sword of glass or the sword that's not a sword.
Simon Wargrave	Re: Artifacts throughout fiction	#15	[-]
Posts: 51 Apr 8 07 7:13 AM Ghoul Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I think it's the legends that make Artifacts artifacts. Taking from a variety of TV sources items of various power. Stargates. Ancient gateways of the gods, with so many legengs on the worlds where they exist, and it, so far, has taken a sun going nova or another artifact (the Eye of Ra) to destroy one. (and we don't know for certain that the sun they blew up destroyed the gate) Xena's throwing disk thingy. By itself, it's not magical per se, but the legends behind it, give it that power. Excaliber may or may not be in the same catagory. The 'Omni' device from Voyagers! It's a McGuffin in that it made the show work, but a powerful item. Heck, you could call KITT an artifact in that sense. Ruby slippers (or silver for purists) Etc. Forgot to add, from real life. The Hope Diamond and the Crystal Skull. Both don't have any 'magical' powers, but their legends make artifacts out of them.
Ifuritasfan	Re: Artifacts throughout fiction	#16	[-]
Posts: 427 Apr 13 07 11:55 AM Ghast Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Uniqueness, potency, and ability to impact... these three things are part of what defines an item as an artifact IMO. But the real defining characteristics are the three D's: Durability, Drawbacks, and Divine-immunity. Artifacts are durable items of historical significance which shape events and which the gods themselves shy away from interfering with. So that pretty much fits all the criteria for most of the ones mentioned. (The one ring for example had durability, clear drawbacks (for anyone other than it's creator, and even for him when he lost it he was crippled), and it always made me wonder... why didn't the elves and dwarves just scrap the corrupted rings they had and make new ones and make a One Ring of their own that could crush that other one ring? It's a plot point that clearly contains elements of divine immunity. Same for Excalibur, it only broke when Arthur broke faith. Up till then it's potency was clear, and the drawback was that it tied up arthurs own life into its machinations. if you look at it in game terms, is a +6 vorpal weapon of flame an artifact? Chances are it's likely a one of a kind item in most campaigns. It's also clearly a highly potent device... it can even have a huge effect on storyline. Is it indestructible except in certain circumstances... nope. Durability: fails. Does it have any real nifty drawbacks for the power it offers? Drawbacks:Other than having people want to steal it from you or kill you for it... nope. Can the gods be evoked to undo what it has done? Yep, usually so. Divine-immunity:fails Artifacts are generally just magical items when you get right down to it... but it's their ability to withstand time, the tradeoffs they require, and their ability to thwart the "will of the gods" or at least to "thwart the powers that be" that set them apart. Myself, if I had the time, I'd have each and every magical item in a campaign world be unique. No +1 or +2 swords out there... each one should come on a 3x5 card for the player and be unique and flavorful. That's what I've always loved about artifacts. You don't have to make every one of them world shakingly powerful... but you can sure as heck make them interesting just by using the 3d's
Simon Wargrave	Re: Artifacts throughout fiction	#17	[-]
Posts: 51 Apr 13 07 3:06 PM Ghoul Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I'm curious Ifuristan, Would you consider the Stargates as artifacts? And are the other rings artifacts? I seem to recall some of the Dwarven rings destroyed by dragons.
Ifuritasfan	reply	#18	[-]
Posts: 427 Apr 14 07 1:26 AM Ghast Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	The stargates as artifacts? Nope... They're more just a plot mcguffin. (sort of like the portals in Portals of Torsh or Portals of Irontooth by judges guild) Honestly... the stargates were a direct rippoff of Richard Tucholka's fringeworthy game, and in fact he had a suit pending against paramount for theft of intellectual property from what I heard a long time ago. But in Stargate SG1, they're just an expression of technology...they're destructible, and really have no divine providence persay. As to some of the dwarven rings being destroyed by dragons... Those weren't artifacts. In the LOTR trilogy, the only artifacts were the black arrow (from The Hobbit, the one that killed Smaug) the palantirs and the one ring. Everything else we saw were all just magic items. The proof in the pudding being that they were destroyable. The fact that the dwarven rings and the elven and human rings were dominated by the one ring show its potency... but the 3 d's seem to be the things that really define whether or not an artifact is an artifact. You'll notice that we never really saw the other rings actually DO anything. In contrast....take the original sword of Kas for example... now THAT was an artifact. But back on the topic of fiction... Perhaps one of the most perfect examples of artifact level items in fiction would be Glen Cooks: Swordbearer book. If you haven't read it I'd suggest doing so. In it, cook wages a war in a fantasy setting, and artifacts feature front and center. Basically they are instruments through with various eldritch factions have been waging a war against one another. It's really a fascinating read.
Treebore	Re: reply	#19	[-]
Posts: 8667 Apr 16 07 1:20 PM Scribe of the Unending Word Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Artifacts and Relics have blurred definitions in my games, and are actually blurred in the RPG. For my games any item with historical significance is an artifact. If it has religious historical significance it is a relic. Power levels are actually independent of those names. For an example, I have an old well in my campaign that is a relic. The only power it has is to effectively cast a cure light wounds, neutralize poison, cure disease, and remove curse all with one drink. Kind of like Keoghtom's Ointment. It only works when drank directly from the well. It was divinely created by a deities sadness over the death of a very favored worshipper at that location. So to commemorate that worshippers death the deity created the well spring. The name of the worshipper and the deity have been lost in history, even though several histories have the right names, but even Legend Lore has been unable to confirm the truth. Then I have Diamond Armor. Inspired by a certain series that Joe mentions (Thomas' Armor) and combined with the Invulnerable Coat of Arnd. It doesn't make the wearer god like, but they become so difficult to kill most would think they are a god. So I essentially define Artifacts and Relics as items that don't follow the same rules of creation/enchantment that a PC has to follow. A lot of items in my campaigns have powers simply because enough people believe the items have the power or powers that they do. Such as my version of the Mace of St. Cuthbert. Its called "Tyr's Justice" in my campaign, but many of its powers are due to many worshippers of Tyr believing it has the power. As part of its history I have had High Priests of Tyr increase the weapons power by getting parishoners to believe the weapon had the power. Since the need was critical enough each time, Tyr himself gave power to the belief, and therefore his weapon. So that kind of explains how Artifacts and Relics work in my campaigns.
Ifuritasfan	Re: reply	#20	[-]
Posts: 427 Apr 16 07 2:28 PM Ghast Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Cool stuff Tree, Hmmm... you think they'd mind if we added a thread to this discussion... listing some of the nifty cool artifacts that we've had in out campaigns? I could list a number of really interesting ones I've made or used in my campaigns over the past 20 something years. Some were the typical ones that we all create when we're just starting out gaming like the flaming sword which is actually MADE of flame and liquid hot iron that never cools down (special sheath a must) and thus aren't really of too much point to drop in and list out...But then there's the really really exotic ones. For example. The Eye of Roaming sight. (snipped and put it in it's own thread)
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Artifacts throughout fiction

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