Did someone actually encounter Larin Karr? possible spoiler in Vault of Larin Karr Forum

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Did someone actually encounter Larin Karr? possible spoiler

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cbermar	Did someone actually encounter Larin Karr? possible spoiler	Lead	[-]
Posts: 14 Feb 17 06 8:30 AM More My Recent Posts	Tags : None possible spolier below Curious to see how many that actually met Larin Karr during the adventure. We are a group of players (ranging from levels 5 to 9) who entered his vault and found his treasure. Now, just when we were about to leave, he confronted us and we are now stuck in the teleport room with him up the stairs with some CR9 (SM devils between us. He buffed himself quite heavily as well, so not only inivisible by a greater invisibility spell but also flying high up in the air. Feels a little too powerful of an opponent to meet at this level no? How did the creators think when they added him to the adventure? I mean, there is no way (if you arent very very lucky) to survive someone of this guys caliber when he buffed and prepared well ahead while the players havent.
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Ragnar1965	Re: Did someone actually encounter Larin Karr? possible spoi	#1	[-]
Posts: 167 Feb 18 06 1:19 PM Ghast More My Recent Posts	Sounds like your dm is trying to control your loot. You can't beat Larin Karr. Not at your level. I have it set up for Larin Karr to be a recurring character in my campaign (always just missing the party, until it is time for them to meet). That is if they get through it without dying. "Forgiveness is between you and your maker. I'm only responsible for the meeting."
cbermar	Defeated	#2	[-]
Posts: 14 Feb 22 06 12:13 PM More My Recent Posts	*possible spoiler below* We beated him It was a crazy fight, with him buffing himself with 19-20 spells! We used a lot of summons from our druid (greenbounded) who managed to get a grapple on him so he teleported away from his Globe of Invulnerability. Then we got another grapple on him, and then he teleported away. His AC was up as high as 35 and his touch 31. It was nearly impossible to hit with anything, let alone his enormous SR. Orb of Force, Acid Arrows, Wall of Water, Summon Natures Ally, Adrenalin Surge, Wall of Thorns, Glitterdust, Dispel Magic. Those were all useful.
Simontmn1	Re: Defeated	#3	[-]
Posts: 282 Mar 16 06 3:36 AM Ghast More My Recent Posts	Well he's multiclass so he's not anything like a real CR 20 - more like CR 15 as statted, less really with his low hp, more like a CR 12 challenge. I've restatted him as 15th level, with a house rule that lets multiclassers cast at their full character level, and increased his CON, so he's equal to a typical 15th level NPC character.
cbermar	Re: Defeated	#4	[-]
Posts: 14 Mar 16 06 3:53 AM More My Recent Posts	Low hp? You must be kidding right? He had a full 90 hit points without being buffed! Yeah, thats right. To be exact, that is full hp dices every level. Very very arguable, specially regarding a wizard. How did Necromancer Games think when designing him?
Simontmn1	Re: Defeated	#5	[-]
Posts: 282 Mar 16 06 6:03 AM Ghast More My Recent Posts	"How did Necromancer Games think when designing him?" They didn't. Design him that way, I mean. (spoiler) In the module he is statted as Wiz-15/Rog 5 with CON 10 and 66 hit points. If you think that makes a CR 21 I have this bridge for sale... I made him Wiz-10/Rog 5 with CON 14 and 76 hit points, caster level still 15, CR 16. Edit: Furthermore as written he's AC 21, he could boost that to 25 if he had "Mage Armour", but he doesn't so he can't... unless the GM kindly gave him a scroll. Sounds like your GM massively, massively boosted him from the very wussy stats listed in the book.
cbermar	Re: Defeated	#6	[-]
Posts: 14 Mar 16 06 11:14 AM More My Recent Posts	Hmm thats strange. Our DM said it was "as printed" in the adventure. Here is the exact stats that the Larin Karr we met had > www.bermar.se/cb/download.php?get=LarinKarrStats.doc. So you are saying that he modified the original stats from the adventure? I doubt that he did, we always play "as is" and by the book.
Crysmalon	Re: Defeated	#7	[-]
Posts: 269 Mar 26 06 7:41 AM Wight More My Recent Posts	Part of the fun in my opinion is not playing by the book. Larin Karr can be whatever you want him to be - the stats in the back of the module are a guideline for what he might be like. If that isn't challenging, then the DM should rewrite it. And if the DM rewrites it to make it fun, he/she is doing the right thing.
Crysmalon	Re: Defeated	#8	[-]
Posts: 269 Mar 26 06 7:42 AM Wight More My Recent Posts	...I've combined ToA with VoLK. Larin Karr's treasure is truly massive. I would almost see it as the end of a campaign to garner that much loot. Unless you have Larin Karr appear to take some away again. Tough call.
Simontmn1	login	#9	[-]
Posts: 282 Mar 31 06 8:36 AM Ghast More My Recent Posts	login
Simontmn1	Larin Karr	#10	[-]
Posts: 282 Mar 31 06 8:38 AM Ghast More My Recent Posts	Heh heh heh, in the book this "CR21" guy has AC 21, 66hp (note his CON 10), his top spells listed are ( Discern Location (7) db fireball, finger of death, greater scrying. Your GM was lying to you.
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Caaligula	Very playable!	#11	[-]
Posts: 12 Apr 4 06 3:01 AM More My Recent Posts	I was the DM in the VoLK session presented in this thread. Generally I dislike having meta discussions about a specific adventure, but I think you guys miss out on the essentials here. Larin Karr as presented in VoLK is not playable and not feasable according to CR listed and the vast treasure that is present. Remember, VoLK is an old 3.0 adventure and needs a big, big overhaul! Only each individual DM knows what will fit each individual group and the circumstances in the campaign as a whole. The Larin Karr I used was the real Larin Karr. Played as intended too. An evil, intelligent, prepared, legendary drow adventurer, who under no circumstances would let anyone get away with his treasure. Any DM who misses this point in the modul has not done his job! VoLK is written for a huge final battle inside the vault. Be sure about that. Cbermar who initiated this thread states the encounter was "too difficult". Shortly after he admits the group defeated Larin Karr and got away with all the treasure. So I guess it couldnt be "too difficult" after all....
Simontmn1	Larin Karr	#12	[-]
Posts: 282 Apr 4 06 4:01 AM Ghast More My Recent Posts	"Larin Karr as presented in VoLK is not playable and not feasable according to CR listed.." He's playable - he just ain't CR 21. That's why I altered his stats too, just like every GM ought to since as you point out, they're no good. It's not a 3e/3.5e thing though.
Simontmn1	Larin Karr	#13	[-]
Posts: 282 Apr 4 06 4:06 AM Ghast More My Recent Posts	"VoLK is written for a huge final battle inside the vault. Be sure about that." Hmm, not exactly. It suggests that Karr might discover the theft _after_ the PCs leave the tomb, and may come hunting them, but this is all at GM's discretion & it suggests that "Larin Karr... should not appear until the PCs have reached at least 12th level, preferably 14th or 15th." So the original poster's gripe that the author put an undefeatable baddy in the scenario is doubly misplaced: 1. He's not supposed to appear within the scope of the original scenario, only optionally later on. 2. As written, he's eminently beatable, certainly by a 12th-15th level party.
cbermar	Re: Very playable!	#14	[-]
Posts: 14 Apr 4 06 4:08 AM More My Recent Posts	Well, it was too difficult. The person that we met that is stated in the document above should have killed us all very easily. Why would Necromacergames put in such a powerful end boss that leaves no possibility for victory? We did win the battle. But I was very suprised that we did I must admit. He only killed one of our members after casting spells such as Horrid Wilting and such. And it also bothers me that one of you are not telling the truth about his stats. Is he stated as a CON 10 or something else? Is he stated with 90 HP or 66 HP before casting defensive spells on him?
cbermar	Re: Larin Karr	#15	[-]
Posts: 14 Apr 4 06 4:12 AM More My Recent Posts	"it suggests that Larin Karr... should not appear until the PCs have reached at least 12th level, preferably 14th or 15th." Is this written in the adventure? Hehe at least 12th level =)... we were all 7-9th level. Eventho well optimized, we are far off from those levels. We are talking about 20-30,000 xp away. "2. As written, he's eminently beatable, certainly by a 12th-15th level party." What is written? You say 66 HP and CON 10 with no major offensive spells. We met someone with 90 HP, CON ??? and spells such as Horrid Wilting etc. And we were 7-9th level, not 12-15th.
cbermar	Re: Larin Karr	#16	[-]
Posts: 14 Apr 4 06 4:16 AM More My Recent Posts	This encounter was over our heads. We were luck many times, and on our knees on several occasions (in the final fight). However, we did manage to pull it off. Look at those stats in the Word document above and think for yourselfs. He was inivisible (improved), flying, hidden behind a cloak of darkness etc etc just to name a few spells active. And regarding his high SR, dispelling is out of the question.
Caaligula	Re: Larin Karr	#17	[-]
Posts: 12 Apr 4 06 4:36 AM More My Recent Posts	Well, if you killed Larin Karr and got away with all the treasure, the encounter was not above your heads. You get stuck in meta-thinking, and you miss out on the big picture. NPC stats is not the only equation in the formula. NPCs act according to their personality, which may not always be rational or logic. This behaviour is exclusive for the players. Different DMs will have different views on how Larin Karr, or any other NPC for that matter, will be played, so its not about a factual truth. The truth in all rpg is subjective. Not objective. My personal opinion is that any adventure should be played out as realistic as possible, and not only fit the meta-physics of the game.
cbermar	Re: Larin Karr	#18	[-]
Posts: 14 Apr 4 06 4:58 AM More My Recent Posts	You are still avoiding the actual question. Was he stated as 66 HP or 90 HP in the adventure? And what was his CON stat? This is important since if they are changed (and should'nt be changed in the conversion - wizard/rogue has same hit dice in 3.0 as in 3.5) it's not really nice towards the players. He is already hard to beat, and making someone already hard to beat harder is a low-blow. That can spoil any game for any player.
Caaligula	Re: Did someone actually encounter Larin Karr? possible spoi	#19	[-]
Posts: 12 Apr 4 06 5:08 AM More My Recent Posts	VoLK is a 3.0 adventure and needs a major overhaul. The stats for Larin Karr are correct as stated in my word document, except touch AC which should be about 10 units lower.
cbermar	Re: Did someone actually encounter Larin Karr? possible spoi	#20	[-]
Posts: 14 Apr 4 06 5:11 AM More My Recent Posts	OK, then Simontmn1 cant read or has a manipulated copy I guess, weird.
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Did someone actually encounter Larin Karr? possible spoiler

Did someone actually encounter Larin Karr? possible spoiler