What went wrong with COF? in Crucible of Freya Forum

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What went wrong with COF?

Author	Comment
Faebinder	What went wrong with COF?	Lead	[-]
Posts: 449 Jan 7 02 5:38 PM Spectre Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Tags : None Don't get me wrong guys, I love the Necromancer Games' work and I have every single one of them so far..... Cruicible of Freya was alright but not breath taking compared to other for two reasons that I can think of... 1) Storyline is so short. I mean you arrive at city, crucible is stolen, party goes to get it, come back heros. All the other plots are just icing around the cake, the cake is still small even if the icing makes it sweet. 2) There was not much for mystry. The orcs didnt have secret allies in the village. There was nothing special about getting the crucible other than screwing the village. Basically, things are easy to figure out. Rappan Athuk had some mystry to it. Till level 6 or so they dont even know this is about Orcus.
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Jeffrey	Re: What went wrong with COF?	#1	[-]
Posts: 95 Jan 7 02 10:38 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	What "other" are you referring to? If there's something better, I'd sure like to know of it. Jeff
WDSmithJr	Re: What went wrong with COF?	#2	[-]
Posts: 340 Jan 8 02 2:08 AM Necromantic Webmaster Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	"1. Story line is short." While, I wasn't around back then and had nothing to do with CoF, so I am answering this as a fan, I can see where some might think that. I, personally feel that the story is adaquate to start the bonding process for a low level party. It is simple but contains all the classic elements of the "town-to-dungeon crawl". A lot of 2e suppliments went real heavy on the story and lite on the location. I think CoF strives to do both, but might tip in favor of location, as this really is the 1st edition feel. Which leads to what I find CoF more valuable for, its use as a sourcebook. Even with out the story, the locale is great for buildng upon.
reutbing0	Re: What went wrong with COF?	#3	[-]
Posts: 74 Jan 8 02 4:04 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	*Quote:* . I, personally feel that the story is adaquate to start the bonding process for a low level party. It is simple but contains all the classic elements of the "town-to-dungeon crawl". A lot of 2e suppliments went real heavy on the story and lite on the location. I think CoF strives to do both, but might tip in favor of location, as this really is the 1st edition feel. Which leads to what I find CoF more valuable for, its use as a sourcebook. Even with out the story, the locale is great for buildng upon. I agree 100% with you. If yuo run Cof after The Wizards Amulet the overall story gets a bit meatier though. Also I think that the web-enhancement for CoF adds even more meat to the module and can also be used to add some mistery (Gethrame...).
Olshanski	Re: What went wrong with COF?	#4	[-]
Posts: 582 Jan 8 02 11:14 AM Vampire Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I felt that Crucible of Freya was one of the best adventure's I've run... especially with WA as a lead-in. When I was in my teens and 20s, my players often had time for whole weekend long marathon sessions of gaming with room after room of monsters, often taking some 40+ hours of playing to get to a "resolution". Now that I am in my 30s, and time is extremely valueable, I need adventures that are a shorter, but filled with beautiful imagery, intriguing characters, and tightly woven plot... Some elements of WA-COF that my players liked: A chicken pecking the remains of the daughter in the farmhouse: The raven "Talon" spying on the party. The "Dwarves of the Shattered Haft", a group of bumbling blowhards that added comic relief. Baran, the stern captain of the guard with the missing hand. The tension filled chase through the woods. The scouting and eventual raid on Eralion's Keep. The negotiation with the shade of Eralion - the restoration of the chapel of St. Cuthbert, and the eventual divine retribution as Cuthbert exacted punishment on the shade of Eralion. If you continue, the negotiation with the ratmen witch Glathaa in an attempt to get the staff to restore vision to Gethrame was a great moral dilemma for the characters as well. I thought that CoF was hands down the best module for starting a campaign that I've read (for mature player characters... who thrive on imagery, characterization, and plot).
Jeffrey	Re: What went wrong with COF?	#5	[-]
Posts: 95 Jan 8 02 11:46 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Yeah, the part about the one-handed captain really got the party saying, "Need a hand?" Naturally, I did an NPC encounter reaction roll for that. Heh. Jeff
Sessestophelzine	Re: What went wrong with COF?	#6	[-]
Posts: 1145 Jan 8 02 11:50 AM Evil Archmage Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I've run CoF twice with different groups each time, and it's taken about 8 or so sessions to effectively conclude with it's Wizard's Amulet lead-in. Definitely sufficient time to get to know and love new characters, and fall under the spell of the most gorgeous mature elf the PCs will likely find. Both groups enjoyed it. Both groups needed multiple assaults upon the keep. I sufficiently scared off the first group so much from the lower chambers under the trapdoor that they figured their chances were better elsewhere taking on a juvenile blue dragon (!). Better yet, Tavik racked up two kills in the second group, which only escaped by the barest of margins with Tavik, Talon, Vorty, the two thugs and a lone orc left remaining. Both groups felt the Fear of God, both groups spent 30-40 hours doing this and both groups liked it very much. Works for me. ...the Darkmage
cildarith	Need a hand?	#7	[-]
Posts: 628 Jan 8 02 11:52 AM Vampire Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Oh, don't get me started. As soon as I introduced Baran to the PCs that is ALL I heard for the next 30 or 40 minutes. If I ever run Crucible again, that guy is going to have two hands. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice touch and all, but it thoroughly disrupted the game. Heh.
Faebinder	Re: Need a hand?	#8	[-]
Posts: 449 Jan 8 02 1:09 PM Spectre Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	The others I was speaking of are adventures like the Sunless Citidel. CoF was infact more like a sourcebook/adventure than an adventure. While I do applaud that approach, a warning should have at least been made so I can add more meat to the package if you catch my drift. I didn't really think it was going to be this short till I actually ran it...it was done in one game day...of course a game day for my fanatical group is from 12 noon till 3 am.
GreenPiece	Re: Need a hand?	#9	[-]
Posts: 3539 Jan 8 02 2:24 PM Necromantic Webmaster Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	But still you must have rushed through it, if you got it all done in one session. Did you use the WA as introduction and/or the CoF-Supplement? Unless your party wasn't at least 10th level, I doubt they solved many of the possible quests. But you're right, it is almost a sourcebook - and a quite intensive one. Yet, I really love it!
Faebinder	Re: Need a hand?	#10	[-]
Posts: 449 Jan 8 02 3:47 PM Spectre Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	The party didnt solve all the puzzles. Yes, I did use WA and moved all the way to CoF.
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Orcus	Re: Need a hand?	#11	[-]
Posts: 5281 Jan 8 02 3:59 PM Demon Lord Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Those are really great comments. I think it highlights something interesting. Were I to do Crucible today, I would do it differently. Remember, Crucible was one of the first d20 modules out--it was the first one in major stores and book stores (Atlas and Green Ronin were in game stores) and WA was already released. I designed Crucible more as a source book with a suggested adventure. Why? Because 3E was brand spanking new and I knew DMs and players would be looking for little mini-settings: places to base a new campaign. That is why I made Crucible the way I did. Today, people have established campaigns. I would do a larger "story" adventure. The market doesnt call out for a Crucible as much as it did when d20 started out. I think that is why Freeport was so popular. It was a new base of operations. You will notice, we did more of the longer story and mystery stuff in the download with the whole Gethrame mystery and the ratmen. The adventure in Crucible is real straightforward--orcs take thingy, you beat up orcs and take thingy back. Nothing wrong with a simple story. Luke and Han rescuing Leia from the Death Star is a simple story. I wanted to give the DM more flexibility. I really like the comments (negative and positive). I think the logic of game design and adventure design is real interesting. Clark
Orcus	Re: Need a hand?	#12	[-]
Posts: 5281 Jan 8 02 4:04 PM Demon Lord Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Go check out the free downloadable adventure supplements for Crucible. I think that stuff will give you the extra stuff you want. Plus, if you played WA as a lead in you probably still had Vortigern around. I have had people tell me they harassed the party with Vortigern (accused of murder, etc) for several sessions before they even had the Orcs attack. You will also notice that I let that interval in the adventure (before the attack) be as long or short as you want to fit in your own stuff. But I agree with you in principle. The main body of the adventure if you ran it and nothing else and didnt build on any of the leads and tantalizing loose ends you could get through the module in 2 sessions (12 to 3 am is more than one session my friend, that is like a high school flashback saturday all day D&D marathon like I used to do!) Thnaks again for the comments and for starting this thread and discussion. Clark
bushfire	Re: What went wrong with COF?	#13	[-]
Posts: 295 Jan 9 02 6:39 AM Wight Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Actually the fact that I could use CoF with a short storyline was what made it nice for me. I used it more as a "sidetrek" kind of adventure rather than a basis for a campaign. The party was in town for a couple of different reasons when the Crucible was stolen. I didn't use/need all the other options the module (and downloads) provided. They were very nice and I will probably use some of them in the future but what I wanted was a straight forward smash&grab adventure. For this CoF was great. My players had a blast assualting the keep and killing orcs. Tavik managed to get away, much to the annoyance of my players, and will for sure make another appearance latter. bushfire Adventures in the World of Wearth http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/wearth
Darklone	Crucible	#14	[-]
Posts: 63 Jan 9 02 7:00 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Well... It may be playable straight forward, but if you flesh out the NPCs... and go on some sidetrecks.... manticores for example (One kill for me), troll or ettin... And combine some of these sidetrecks with a yet bigger villain... add some politics about the Duke of the Waymarch and a rival ... You'll have what WA and CoF is: A start for a full fledged campaign. And a nice one!
Dark Mistress	Re: Crucible	#15	[-]
Posts: 2649 Jan 15 02 6:28 AM Dominatrix Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	This is so far my fav D20 addy to date, why you ask? Cause it gave a great setting as a srping board for many future addys with lots of hooks interasting characters ect. I used it as the base of my chronical, and greatly expanded on the orcs int he caslte which was easly done. All and all I consider it a clasic in the making.
GreenPiece	Re: Crucible	#16	[-]
Posts: 3539 Jan 16 02 6:13 AM Necromantic Webmaster Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	-Dark Mistress My players spent such a long time solving almost every possible quest in CoF+supplement that I had to spice up the ruined keep quite drastically. Nevertheless, from the 60 orcs I placed in there only one got away alive. He jumped off the keep's wall and dragged himself into the woods, while all his companions shared a gruesome death...
Orcus	Re: Crucible	#17	[-]
Posts: 5281 Jan 16 02 12:12 PM Demon Lord Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	"gruesome death", may favorite kind! Clark
Eryx	Re: Crucible	#18	[-]
Posts: 12068 Jan 20 02 10:22 AM Death Knight of the Black Rose Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	After reading the above comments, I went out and bought CoF (Apologies and many bowings to Orcus for taking so long.) and overall I thought it a very good introductory adventure to draw new players into the game and to start a new campaign going. The only thing I didn't like were the over-powered monster lairs around the place. An Ettin and a Manticore! Any first/second level party to encounter these is going to end up as so much red goo. Why where they included? 8/10. Colin.Fangsfall DM.http://www.swordsorcery.com
Plaag	Re: Crucible	#19	[-]
Posts: 1033 Jan 20 02 10:31 AM Vampire Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Possibly to allow the use of the region when characters gain more levels, but also and just my opinion..to break away from that higher level monsters are only met when characters are higher level, so here low level chars learn that the world isn't all beatable and they best damn run if they irk that manticore. ShaneG.
Tsathogga	You cannot kill everything you find	#20	[-]
Posts: 2491 Jan 20 02 4:55 PM Demon Lord Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Yup; COF should teach that lesson well; else blobs of red goo will abound. Note that Girbolg and the troll do NOT chase if they are fled from.
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What went wrong with COF?

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