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Orcus wrote:

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Treebore wrote:

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I know what a business is, Clark, I've ran one. Successfully too. To the point where my kids already have a very nice inheritance to look forward to. Just from running that business 8 years. To be even more clear, the hard assets my wife and I have are valued at over 2 million. Assets we obtained due to our business acumen.

So like Dark Mistress points out, you have never ran Necromancer Games as a business with which you wanted to make thrive and be successful. You did exactly what you said you did, which does not, and did not, translate into a strong business that decides its own course.

You wanted to support 4E in a big way. You cannot because you did not run Necromancer to be a business that was successful in ways that gave you the connections and resources to do so. You ran it as a business that allowed you to do what you wanted to do completely on your terms. Your terms simply were not to be a successful RPG business like Goodmans is. Something you clearly state. For some reason you thought making money and cranking out stuff couldn't be done in conjunction with "we are in the unique BUSINESS situation of being able to say if we cant do what we want we wont do anything."

If it was you would now be able to do what you want to do. You can't, because you were, and are, fundamentally wrong. Which is fine. Its clear the most important thing to you was to only put only what you wanted to put into Necromancer Games. Plus, your right, You guys put together some pretty impressive stuff, most of which I own 3 copies of. Something I have not done for any other company, including my current favorite, Troll Lord Games and their C&C line. Outside of the rule books, I only own one of everything they have made, and even though I now have the cash flow to do so again, I have no desire to do so.

Like you said, Necromancer can be proud of a lot of what it made. You guys did a lot of awesome kick ass stuff. No doubts about that.
However, because you ran Necromancer the way you did, you now cannot do what you want to do. That is not WOTC's fault, or the GSL's fault. Its due to how you ran Necromancer. Granted, you got to run it the way you wanted, and do things the way you wanted, but now its crippled your ability to do what you wanted to do in 4E.

So yes, you ran a business the way you wished, but the way you did it is now your road block.

To some extent that last line is true, but not the rest. Some choices we made are now our roadblock. I could have started my own system or supported C&C or done other things like that. Or made a series of weak OGL products just to keep books on the shelves. But that is not our business goal. Our goal has always been to support D&D. We didnt start Necro to become WW or some rival game company. And being a third party that supports licensed content has its restrictions and limitations. And I'm comfortable with those.

But saying I didnt run Necro to thrive and be successful is just crazy. I think we have been more successful than anyone could ever even have guessed. And this quote: "You wanted to support 4E in a big way. You cannot because you did not run Necromancer to be a business that was successful in ways that gave you the connections and resources to do so" is also not correct. I do want to support 4E. But it isnt me "not running it like a business" that impacted things. My "connections" didnt make the GSL what it was. In fact, it was my connections that got us a usable GSL, just too late. My connections have nothing to do with this.

The problem I have is that I want to support modern D&D. In other words, I have to use some kind of license. And that license is either available or it isnt. There are external factors there that have nothing to do with me. I dont want to produce weak OGL quasi 4E products just for continuity. The roadblock, as you call it, is our desire to support modern D&D and right now doing so the way I want to doesnt pencil. And if there is a bad business decision, its to do things that dont make sense.

What does have something to do with things is the fact that I have always had a print partner. Would the numbers that exist today permit me to do the products I want to do if I had an all internal staff and team? I dont think so. But you never know. What if I had taken the road of all internal layout and design and a staff artist and all that stuff? Frankly, I dont think that would have worked, but who knows.

Business success in my view is defined by its goals. Necro has so far exceeded our business goals I cant even describe it. We arent trying to be WW or Chaosium. You are acting as if the only acceptable business model is to be a company and do whatever has to happen and be defined by the market. I disagree with that. I just dont want to do those products. I refuse to sell less than top notch stuff to people just for continuity. The Necro brand means something. I dont care if I have an income stream from Necro now (I do, from pdfs, but not current products). I am convinced that maintaining the integrity and value and reputation for quality of Necro is more important than another marginally successful book. I believe there will be a time where support for D&D is more viable than it is now.

I'm happy for Joe that he was able to navigate his company through from 3.5 to 4 and make the products he wants to make. He did a kick butt job creating his internal process and network. He scratched and clawed to get that process in place and I applaud him for it. But even had I dont all those things, the sales numbers we are talking about dont permit me to make the kind of products I want to make. Its that simple. Joe says you cant make the same product for 4E. I agree. You have to make better ones. The production value bar has been raised by Wizards. But that said, some of the same content is viable at least in theory--big monster book, etc. So really the same kinds of products are possible.

Its not my decisions that are hindering me. Its the delay in the GSL, the lack of Wizards embracing 3P support for 4E, the generally risk averse attitude of distributors and other things.

Could I put out some marginally successful books right now with production values lower than I want just to have books on the shelf? Sure. I choose not to do that. Does that mean I am not running Necro like a business? No. I'm taking a long term view, not a short term view. You've got to remember, from my standpoint we are playing with house money.

Well, I think to a large degree we are saying the same things, you were successful in the ways you wished to be, and that is all fine, well, and good. My point is that your goal was never to be a strong, thriving, self determining RPG business, and therefore you weren't, and that is now biting you in your rear in terms of crippling your ability to do what you want to do under 4E.

So your business was a total success for allowing you to do what you did under 3E, but now its now obvious your business plan did not create a strong enough business to allow you to make a strong transition from 3E to 4E like Joe did.

Thats just a fundamental difference in your business plan and goals in comparison to what Goodmans are. Goodman ran his business to be a long term and viable RPG business, and he did so. He also made the business decisions that kept him in a strong and viable position during the tranistion from 3E to 4E. You didn't run Necromancer with those same goals, so you didn't make similar plans or decisions. So now instead of being a strong and viable company like Goodmans company is, your in the boat your in. So now you are going to be able to accomplish far less than you could if your goals, from the beginning, are to be a fully viable company like Joe's is.

So what I am saying, and attempting to sum up here as simply as I can manage, is you succeeded in the ways you wished to succeed, unfortunately those successes did not supoort a transition into 4E in a way to allow you to do what you want to do in 4E. Where as if your starting goals with Necromancer had been similar to what Goodmans were, you would be in a position to do exactly what you wanted to do in 4E and would have been doing it for the last year, since you would have presumably made similar decisions as Goodman made to keep your company strong and viable enough to do these things at this time.

So your "business plan" was a success for what you wanted to do in 3E, but it translated into also being why you can't do what you have wanted to do in 4E.

As for the "he only does it as a side job" comment, Joe Goodman has a "day job" too, and so did my wife and I when we ran our business for 8 years. Our business was fortunately highly profitable with very few hours of work. I mean if you convert it from profits to money made per hour of work based on those profits, AND assets acquired with those profits, we made 10's of thousands of dollars per hour. Plus our assets continue to average 15% of appreciation, even in the current economy.

So just because its "side job" and you still have a "day job" doesn't mean you can't still run a successful side business. Clark considers what he did as successful, and judging him by the goals he had, he did hit a "home run". I totally agree that Necromancer put out some awesome product, and under the terms and goals Necromancer was run under, it was a total success.


Goodman still has his day job, and Goodman Games is the success he wanted it to become back when he started it.

Our business was a success, and the only reason we stopped it was because of the nature of the disabilities the Army gave my wife made her unable to make the molds she made for our jewelry. Heck, I still buy and facet or cab a few gemstones every year. Usually Sapphires, opals, or the occcasionally valuable garnets. Plus, with the rock hounding we have been doing here in AZ, I/we have a nice pile of tourquise and chrysocola to cab. A pile that would retail for about $30,000 dollars. Just now I am collecting and cabbing what I do as a hobby, not a business. Now I only care about how gorgeous it is, not how much its worth. My kids can worry about value when they inherit. Plus we may have now found a vein of molybdenum. molybdenum So we will be having fun with that for a while.