Skill Challenges

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joela	Skill Challenges	Lead	[-]
Posts: 60 (03/02/09 15:53:02) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None Skills Challenges, or SKs, are unique to 4E as far as I know. How should they be considered in 4E Classic?
Syrsuro		#1	[-]
Posts: 1 (03/02/09 16:02:20) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	More importantly than skill challenges are skills themselves. Skills are not really a part of 'classic' D&D and arguably the switch from player-driven (i.e. 'roleplayed') resolution of such things to character-driven (skill check/ die roll) represents a huge change to the game. Will there be skills in 4E 'classic'? Carl
joela		#2	[-]
Posts: 61 (03/02/09 16:10:15) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Syrsuro wrote: Will there be skills in 4E 'classic'? Carl Yes. Clark himself has stated he wants 4E Classic PCs to be able to play in 4E core mods (e.g., Keep of the Shadowfell, etc.) and players to be able to run, for example, core Paladins and 4E Classic paladins in the same party/adventure.
Wycen Adamantite		#3	[-]
Posts: 2387 (03/02/09 18:00:34) Lich Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	A series of rolls, requiring a certain number of success before a certain number of fails is not very "classic" in my opinion. I don't know how to make it better other than just 1 roll and move to the next issue at hand. Dawning Star: Operation Quick Launch Dawning Star: Helios Rising Hoards
redbeard		#4	[-]
Posts: 10 (03/02/09 19:10:39) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Wycen Adamantite wrote: A series of rolls, requiring a certain number of success before a certain number of fails is not very "classic" in my opinion. I don't know how to make it better other than just 1 roll and move to the next issue at hand. I've always thought that what old schoolers would object to in Skill Challenges was how "narrativist" they can be. The player gets to define a part of the environment, a context to use their ability (and it isn't just skills). Example: skill challenge was to dig out the rubble blocking the tunnel that was the dungeon entrance that we had found. My character had an item that let me resist a physical attack 1/day. So I said, "Ok, at one point in the dig the rocks collapse but Kertins steps up to take the blows from the falling rocks, prevent a collapse of the tunnel and protect the diggers." This was at the RPGA games at PAX, and the DM gave us a success for it. If someone is running skill challenges as simply a gauntlet of skill rolls, they're running skill challenges wrong. They're using skills wrong. Maybe what is needed in the classic 4E is an explanation that you can't use a skill unless you can (at least generally) describe what you're doing. Skills should not be a way to turn roleplaying into rollplaying. Skill challenge or not, you can't use Thievery skill to search for traps unless you describe how you're probing with your 10' pole, how you're pouring water to look for cracks. You can't use Diplomacy unless you can describe your argument and address the NPC in character. I've always run skills that way, as soon as I started DMing again in 3.x, and I've always been flabbergasted that people would let skills be a substitute for role playing instead of a method to help DMs in adjudicating success or failure. Running: 3.5 Playing: 1E AD&D. I'd rather be playing or running either 4E or Castles and Crusades. I guess that makes me an O.A.F. - Old-school Admirer of Fourth edition. But if the group is good, any system can make a good game.
Orcus		#5	[-]
Posts: 5144 (03/02/09 20:33:35) Demon Lord Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I happen to think the changes to skills and the formal addition of skill challenges is one of the best features of 4E.
Fat Dragon Games		#6	[-]
Posts: 15 (03/02/09 21:09:10) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Skills/SCs in 4E are a huge improvement over 3/3.5. The system works very well as-is, and from our group's experience SCs actually encourage more role playing.
joela		#7	[-]
Posts: 66 (03/02/09 23:21:51) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Orcus wrote: I happen to think the changes to skills and the formal addition of skill challenges is one of the best features of 4E. Ditto. The RPGA modules illustrate amazingly what to do with skill challenges.
joela		#8	[-]
Posts: 67 (03/02/09 23:23:06) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Fat Dragon Games wrote: Skills/SCs in 4E are a huge improvement over 3/3.5. The system works very well as-is, and from our group's experience SCs actually encourage more role playing. Same. It's one of the reasons I never understood the argument that 4E doesn't allow role-playing compared to older additions of D&D.
redbeard		#9	[-]
Posts: 18 (03/03/09 00:35:21) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	joela wrote: Fat Dragon Games wrote: Skills/SCs in 4E are a huge improvement over 3/3.5. The system works very well as-is, and from our group's experience SCs actually encourage more role playing. Same. It's one of the reasons I never understood the argument that 4E doesn't allow role-playing compared to older additions of D&D. You know, while I agree, I can somewhat understand where the complaints are coming from. At the few dozen RPGA tables I've played, I've seen some few DMs really screw up skill challenges (granted, one guy was at PAX, still learning the game and was upfront that he'd rather be running Pathfinder). I think the concept is great but they needed like twice as many pages in the DMG to explain and further describe. There have been additional explanations in the Dragon now as well. As I understand it, they will be further revised in the DMG2. Running: 3.5 Playing: 1E AD&D. I'd rather be playing or running either 4E or Castles and Crusades. I guess that makes me an O.A.F. - Old-school Admirer of Fourth edition. But if the group is good, any system can make a good game.
joela		#10	[-]
Posts: 69 (03/03/09 00:44:04) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	redbeard wrote: I think the concept is great but they needed like twice as many pages in the DMG to explain and further describe. There have been additional explanations in the Dragon now as well. As I understand it, they will be further revised in the DMG2. Not surprised. As a new system, there are bound to be glitches. I remembered when I restarted playing D&D again with 3.5: boy, did my longer playing gamers argue over the changes from AD&D 2nd edition and even 3.0!
denzoner		#11	[-]
Posts: 3 (03/09/09 20:10:04) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I <3 4E Skill Challenges! I think they're one of the greatest advances of the d20 rules I've seen! They're fluffy enough for "Role-players", and crunchy enough to make Roll-players happy.
meomwt		#12	[-]
Posts: 1149 (03/15/09 14:51:19) Mighty Eater Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	The skill challenge rules were test-driven in the 3.5E supplement Unearthed Arcana. The rules didn't attract a lot of attention at the time IIRC, but they are remarkably similar. I'm planning on using skill challenges in 3.5E next time I start up a campaign. I've already sketched out the encounter which includes the challenges - obtaining information on a goblin camp from the tribe's dying shaman. Role-playing, not just dice, will determine the outcome of this one. Skills got used in earlier editions, just not in this formalised manner. It was usually a roll-under-stat mechanic, IIRC, with situational modifiers making the roll easier or harder. While the skills systems are not "old-school" as such, clever DM's can encourage old-style skill responses to make the game flow as before. Orcus wrote: Meomwt is a cool guy. ----------------------------------- Accuracy is our watchwurd.

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